E88 | What's so hard about shooting hybrid solo?

In our first proper episode hosting together we discuss the challenges of capturing a wedding in still photography and videography as a solo hybrid shooter. We go through an entire wedding day and discuss how we would approach each part of the day and the workarounds for the various aspects that need to be captured in both photo and video at the same time. 

This is a great episode for anyone looking at offering hybrid who is unsure about how they can get the coverage they want, we hope it is helpful. 

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Epilogue - CHPTRS

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On the How to Shoot Hybrid Podcast we talk about all things Photo, Video and Hybrid Shooting!

This is a place for photographers and videographers who want to build successful and sustainable business capturing weddings, live events, working with commercial clients or working on creative projects.

We discuss different topics around photography, filmmaking and business as well as interviewing guests in the photography, filmmaking and hybrid content creation industries.

To discover more about the podcast click this link: https://lnk.bio/howtoshoothybrid

Transcript

Jules: It is the How to Shoot hybrid podcast, discussing topics around photography, videography, and running a business. My name's Jules, and I'm here with my co-host, Kieran. Thanks for joining evening, 

Kieran: afternoon, or morning, wherever you're in the world. . 

Jules: On this episode, we're gonna be discussing the hardest things to master about hybrid photo and video shooting as a solo wedding shooter.

So stick around if that's something you're interested in. Before we do that, just a quick ask from you. And that is that if you are listening to the podcast, if you're getting some value from it and you enjoy listening, will you just or subscribe wherever you're listening. If you listen to on a podcast app like Apple podcast or Spotify, there should be a follow button somewhere, or if you're on YouTube, because you will be able to watch this on YouTube, there's a YouTube channel and you'll be able to subscribe to that.

Obviously if you do that, then you get to know when we leave at least some more content and we've also got an Instagram. profile, which is how to shoot hybrid or one word. We'll be doing some little educational pieces on there for you to learn little tips and tricks from. So if that's of interest to you, go and check it out.

So, mate. Let's talk about solo hybrid shooting at weddings. 

Kieran: Let's go. Let's talk about it. 

Jules: This, this is my, this is my take on it. Like people, I think a lot of people, when you say that you can shoot a wedding doing photo and video as a solo person, I think that a lot of people think you're crazy.

Yeah. Great. What do you think? I think we are crazy. 

Kieran: I think we are crazy. I think, I understand the exact reasons why people would think that. Even before I started shooting hybrid, it took me quite a few months to, to realize that it wasn't rocket science. And it's possible without losing the quality of life.

If you work as well. 

Jules: Yeah, I mean, I think I think there is a challenge there of there will always be a compromise if you issue in both photo and video. I think that, you know, what would that compromise 

Kieran: be in your head? 

Jules: Well, I think I think that We're not talking here about the best photography, wedding photography in the world or the best wedding videography in the world.

So like, you know, there are some, there are some wedding photographers who create some really amazing fine art type work. And there are some amazing wedding videographers who do the most complex highly edited. pieces where they're have you seen the Americans sculpting with time? 

Kieran: No, I haven't heard that from.

Jules: Well, check, check that out if you ever get time. listen to the podcast, go and have a look at them. Their work is, and there's, there are, I could name quite a few other wedding videographers from different parts of the world who do, you know, really intricate stuff. I mean, fire and ice in this country, they, they do quite complex edits.

Now, what I would say is, is that you, you're never going to be able to do that level of work. Yeah. If you are shooting this as a solo shooter. 

Kieran: No, you're not. 

Jules: But you're not, but you're not ever going to be able to shoot it as a solo shooter anyway. Those, those sorts of, of edits, wedding video edits, they require teams of people and they require a lot of planning.

Kieran: Yeah. Never sell that sort of video or photography as a solo feature. So it's, I suppose, part of this podcast. It really is how difficult is it to shoot a podcast pod, how difficult is it to shoot a podcast? How difficult is it to shoot hybrid? It's pretty 

Jules: difficult. 

Kieran: It's pretty difficult. Yeah. How difficult is it to shoot hybrid, but also how do you sell hybrid?

Because really it's, it's all about what product you're going to provide, really, isn't it? You need to be clear on that before you actually start off and you don't want to be offering, as you said. a full Hollywood movie to someone when in actual fact that's not going to be possible when you're shooting photography at the same time.

Jules: Yeah, so that's the question, isn't it? Well, not the question, sir, but that's the approach. It's when you are talking about hybrid, I think people, they you know, other photographers, other videographers that maybe think it's a really bad idea because you're going to water down the product. Well, the thing is, is you're not actually selling hybrid to somebody who's going to hire a sculpting with time or a fire and ice.

production, you know, you're not going to have somebody who's wanting a particular level of production, either from the video or they're wanting this really highly kind of paused, highly kind of detail in terms of like coverage is immaculate. Now, me and you both shoot in a fairly documentary style, I would say.

That's right. And So whether we're shooting photo or video, we're probably capturing the day pretty much as it's happening. We're not setting a lot of stuff up. We're not asking them to do, the couple to do a lot of things. So therefore, you know, for us, well, I won't speak for you, but for me, it's a case of if I'm taking photos, I'm taking photos and if I'm shooting video, it's the same almost process.

There might be a slight difference in the way that I compose things and the way that, you know, like you have to wait a bit longer with a video shot and you can't just swing the camera around taking photos of different things. But, you know, it's, it's the same approach. Whereas, you know, when people say, well, I don't know how you can do both, which is like you've said, it's the, it's the product you're going to deliver into it.

Kieran: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it's the process of how you. how you actually shoot the day as well. So if you're going to overcomplicate it, and you're thinking about bringing drones onto the scene, gimbals, all that sort of stuff, yeah, it is going to start getting more complicated there. But I mean, everyone shoots differently.

Me, when I shoot hybrid, everything's pretty much handheld. On the occasion for like keynones, I might have a tripod set up in the background somewhere to capture keynones. Quite similar to your sound, but it does. Or your, but I shouldn't say. So

Jules: to kind of summarize the, the overall approach, it's about tailoring the approach of you're not capturing one or the other. It's not about compromise in terms of you're going to do a shit job on one because you have shit job on both because you're not focusing on just one. It's the, you're actually providing a different, almost a different service.

You're pitching it to a couple as you're going to get. some really nice photos of those moments that you're going to want to see in still images, and you're also going to get this nice kind of highlight film, and they're both going to be nice products, but your, you weren't going to hire this massive production team anyway, so you would have, you would have either just got one or, or the other, but you wouldn't necessarily have got both if you'd have, you wouldn't have been looking around for this big production anyway.

Yeah. So that's, that's kind of like. you know, that's why I think that it actually works and it makes sense. We won't kind of go into why it makes sense as a business because that's a different topic altogether. But, but as for the couple, the sorts of couples who are going to book you to do hybrid, like I was speaking to one this, I had an inquiry and I was speaking to them this week and, and I found this a lot more recently that more and more couples want both.

But they don't want to hire two companies and they don't want lots of people. So that's it, isn't it really? 

Kieran: it's the ease of everything. Something that I was listening to a podcast the other day. And it was about package, packaging prices and how to, how to get your clients booked. So it's all about, it's all about offering your client the easy options.

So, if you've, if you've got these easy options, you've got more chance of them booking you. For example, for example, hybrid, rather than having to search, as you said, for two, three suppliers, you're all in one, you're all in one location. It's one payout, one contract to sign, one form to fill out. That ends up just being an easier process for them, doesn't it?

Jules: Yeah, absolutely. 

Kieran: Which is, which is probably quite appealing to a lot of people. 

Jules: So, let's kind of talk through then how, how it's, the, the difficulties that we would have as a hybrid tutor, because I imagine that anybody's listening who is either trying to become you know, incorporate both photo and video as a solo shooter or as like, kind of never really done it or thought about it, but they're kind of interested in, you know, well, I can't get my head around that because how would you do this and how would you do that as a solo shooter?

So let's, let's pick on the bits that you would typically struggle with as a solo shooter. Yeah. So if we take, you know, an establishing shot or something like that, they tend to be done at a slower part of the day. So, from my perspective, there's no issue whatsoever with doing details or establishing shots as a, as a dual shooter, because those bits you've normally not got any time pressures.

Yeah. Would you agree that that's, that's really easy to do? Yeah. 

Kieran: That's, that's not a problem. I mean, like the detail shots, like the bridal detail shots and whatnot, it doesn't take that long to tell them shots As long as you get Those specific shots before she's wearing the details, then it's all done, isn't it?

It's easy peasy. It's just that you're going to take a photograph, flip it to, flip it to film. That's a couple of things. I mean, we won't go too deep into the detail shots, but a lot of hybrid shooters actually just use their detailed photographs 

Jules: to photo, yeah, 

Kieran: to drop into the video. So you could even do it that way.

So the pressure's off even more then. 

Jules: Absolutely. So then you kind of, let's say you get into prep, if you're doing all day coverage and you're doing prep, how, how would you normally with the photo video, You are wanting to get some video clips, you're wanting to get the photos. How would you approach the getting ready, let's say the bride, if it's, if there's a bride, let's say how, how do you normally kind of go about that and bear mind at this point?

We we're normally there, aren't we in prep for like an hour or two? 

Kieran: Yeah. So it's pretty simple from my point of view when I edit videos. I try and keep to the same or similar format or template. So for bridal prep, there might be only two or three shots in bridal prep. So as long as I've got them shots, maybe getting the lips put on, the eye on, and doing a last button in the middle of the dress or whatnot.

If I've got them shots on the video, I know that's all I even need. So I think part of that is just down to experience as well, and knowing what you need for your video. So, yeah. And the rest of it is just capturing the photographs and pretty much, to be fair, the same with photographs is as long as I've got a handful of prep shorts, that's all that's really needed that that'll tell that part of the, their story for me.

So I won't be, I won't be sat around for hours on only trying to capture, I mean, like I did to, when I first started out, I probably got 50, 50 to 80 video clips of bridal prep, when in reality I used three of them. So really, I think it was just after experiencing, knowing. Once you've edited a couple of videos, you know the kind of things you're looking out for, and then once you've got them, you know what to do.

You're pretty much safe to flip back to photography and crack on that one, aren't you? I'm not sure if you work the same way, if you've got a template in your head that you use. Yeah, and that's 

Jules: a really good point that you've made because it's, it's, it's about, it's about thinking, you know, how many of these shots do I actually need?

How much of this footage do I actually need? And if you're, If you're prep, you know, let's, let's say your ceremony is at one and you get to bride prep, bridal prep or groom prep at 10, 11 o'clock in the morning, and, you know, you've got like an hour to two hours to get the prep. I mean, you might not stay in the room for all that time because you might kind of flit in and out and do other stuff.

But essentially, if you can, alongside doing your photos, Whatever photos you'd normally get as a photographer. If you can't get three, four video clips in an hour, do you know what I mean? I've just of different, like, it's not necessarily just of the same things, is it, as the photos, because actually with video, you might go, well, I want a photo that actually captures an expression, whereas with video, it might be more subtle, it might be more close up shots of lips, or it might be more close up shots of hands, whereas You know, this is actually going off topic now.

I'm going into more like of how you how you shoot video. We'll get to that on another episode. But, but essentially, because you're doing that, you're not, you know, you've got, I, right, this is what I would say. If I ever just do photo, which I don't do that many, just photo I actually don't know what to do with myself.

That, that's like, I feel like I've got too much time. Mm-Hmm. to take the photos that I needed. Yeah. I'm almost itching to make some video content too. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm thinking normally I would be flip switching between them and I, I feel like I'd be much more productive rather than taking the time.

I mean, there's only so many photos you can take of certain things. 

Kieran: So, 

Jules: so let's, let's kind of move forward then, because then we're going to get to like, I would say the, the, the first hardest bit of the day for me is something like a first look, whether that's, you know, the couple seeing each other or whether that's with bridesmaids or parents.

Kieran: Yeah. 

Jules: Cause if you're on your own, And just a caveat, it's not a bad idea to have a second shooter if you're doing a hybrid coverage, but it's just that you, you might, you might not, you know, so ideally you have a, you have a second shooter and that makes your life a lot easier. Obviously we're just covering the solo because it is like one of those things of like, how the hell can you do that?

So let's talk through, you've got a situation where you've got that. How would you approach that? Because I've kind of got a few things that I would do. But have you, have you got anything that you do in that situation? 

Kieran: Different situations, I think. So a lot of the time, if say we're doing the first look with the dad, which is in this, a lot of the time set up a static camera just behind and I'll, I'll, I'll Press record, that can film that moment, I'll be photographing, so you've captured both moments there.

Yeah, it's a static shot, but a lot of my shots are static, so it kind of merges. Anyway, it's not too bad. The other, the other option is when you're shooting hybrid, I think it's really important to be previewing the couples. So ask them what you prefer. If you can't get one shot, there was, there was a moment where I was in a very, very tight corridor, I couldn't set up two cameras.

It was me with my back against the wall. It just wouldn't, nothing else would have worked. So you had the option of shooting it. photography or videography. So I said to the, I said to the bride, what would you prefer? So I was quite open with her. She decided to go photography. However, the other option as well is, which you could explain to your couple is once you shoot the video, you can get still clips off that.

They're not going to be the best high quality photos, yet it's still a moment captured that you can put into an evaluate, which is, yeah, it's still a moment. So there's a couple of options for you. I think that, I think the main thing is just to be clear with your cuppers what you're intending to do. give them the choice as well.

Jules: Absolutely. So that, that what you've just said, that they're options that I've, I've kind of used and would use a lot of the time. There are kind of other things you could do. People think it's a little bit crazy, but it's actually quite easy to rig two cameras together. I've done that before.

Yeah, so it's, it's these days, it's, there are ways you can do that. It might be a bit heavy. It might, you might look like a bit of a tit, but to be perfectly honest, if people or videographers are running around with massive rigs at weddings, like two handed gimbals and stuff like that, believe me, having two cameras kind of rigged together handheld is not going to look that ridiculous.

And it's actually not that hard to operate, if I'm being honest. Have I, have I completely nailed that? No, I haven't. The issue I 

Kieran: find with that, because I've tried that before is I fucked it up because I ended up shooting the majority of it in portrait,

so it didn't work for the video. Hey, but now, 

Jules: now we're reels, mate, no one cares, it's probably what they 

Kieran: want. Yeah, well that's true, yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean like that is an option, that's, that is a good option. I do know some quite high end videographers that use GoPros. Just a little moments like that, you could easily attach a GoPro to your camera and get them moment captured.

Jules: Yeah, so one of the things I've actually I bought a few months ago was the new DJI Pocket 3. And it's like a, it's a little gimbal camera. It's tiny. And you can attach that to the hot shoe on top of your, on top of your camera because it's actually got an, an actual physical gimbal on it. It gives a really steady shot.

So instead of like having to handhold and move around with the with the photo camera and then have this other camera fixed to it that's going to get all of the movement. It actually takes a lot of the movement out and it's, it's not perfect because it's quite a wide shot. It's, you know, it's like a 24 mil equivalent angle and it's not quite the same quality as what you'd get from your main camera, but essentially.

It is a really good option if you're not far away from your couple and you're wanting to get that dual shot. And especially 

Kieran: when these moments last in a couple of seconds as well. It's not, it's not going to be one of the main focuses on the video. So for two, three seconds, there's something, as you say, might be a bit wider than your standard shots.

I don't think people are really going to, especially couples, aren't really going to notice. The difference between the wide angle and your, and your, what, what do you shoot 24. What do you usually shoot on for 

Jules: video? 

Kieran: Well, I'll be honest, 

Jules: I've most of the time, the last year or so, I've used the Tamron 35 to 150.

So obviously at 35, I'm, I'm getting, that's, that's quite a standard shot that most people would use. Most people would shoot at 35. But it gives me that range of being able to get some really tight shots. So that's actually another, I mean, it's a totally different topic in itself, but that lens is insane for doing hybrid coverage because it just gives you so many options.

And it, you know, from a quality perspective and like how wide the aperture is, cause it's F2 when it's a 35 to 50 ish. So it's not, you know, it's, it's, it's almost like using a prime anyway. But. Also, another thing that I might do is, is use the photos in the video. So, it might sound like, well that's not a proper wedding video, right?

But if you're making a highlight video, what people want to see is a moment or an emotion. So if you can show them that moment or emotion in the video, I know that now we're kind of delving between cinematic film and kind of slideshow. But if you really are in a pinch, I've put photos in hybrid films before, you know, like if it's just been one of those days where there just wasn't, it wasn't like there was loads of action.

But I know I got some really banger photo shots of like certain parts of the day and I've mixed them in, right? And no one gives a shit now. Yeah. I'm not saying that from like a purist perspective that that's the way to go. And I'm not, I'm not recommending that as a strategy, but what I'm saying is, is that as long as you're clear, like you've said already about the product that you're offering, you can, you can actually, you know, you're getting paid for product and as long as you're not making it, as long as you're not suggesting that they're going to get this, you know, crazy wedding film that would have taken a team of three people, they're actually, you know, how you get there is as long as it's in line with what you would normally provide, you can be fluid within that.

And even like burst modes now on photos, like most cameras are shooting 20 plus frames a second in burst mode, which is pretty much video anyway. If 

Kieran: you shoot 24 frames a second, you just create a video, a one second video, so. There you go. That's true. You can do a little stop motion. seen in a video.

And I've done that before, 

Jules: too. 

Kieran: I have seen a few people putting photos in videos. I don't think it really do. I don't think it matched my style of video, but yeah, that's a good option. 

Jules: Yeah. Like I say, it's got to match. It's got to match your style. And I'm not saying that that that's something I do. I don't do that on every video.

But with certain hybrid coverages and certain weddings where you were just like, like, basically, you know, like the ones where if you were just shooting video, you'd be like, Oh my God, I don't know how to make this into a video. 

Kieran: Right. 

Jules: If, if you're doing hybrid with that, actually, you know, it, it makes it, it really raises it up by putting those photos in, because if you imagine like photographers, what they're doing is, potentially making a slideshow of their 100 best images from the wedding or whatever to music, you know, four minute video with like the best, best images and people love watching that.

So what if you've got like this kind of like some video and then every now and then there's a photo and for example, what I'd probably do, 

Kieran: what I'd probably do is, 

Jules: or what I have done is the 100 best videos in color. Then I smashed this black and white photo in and it's almost like it's almost emphasizing the moment.

Kieran: Yeah. 

Jules: And then if you put like a little push in or a little like bit of movement, you know, in the photo. Mm-Hmm. . Just like a tiny bit. 

Kieran: Yeah. 

Jules: A bit like when people, 'cause if you think about it, you've already said sometimes people are even videographers are actually using stills in the video. For the details.

Yeah, 

Kieran: absolutely. 

Jules: Yeah. So it's like, it's not really any different. It's just that because there's people in it, you're expecting them to move. 

Kieran: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's the issue, isn't it? There's moving objects in there which aren't moving, which

I can't, yeah, I'm trying to think for my style of movie. I can't imagine how it would fit in, but I've never tried it. Maybe I'll try the next one and tell you how it goes. 

Jules: It's, it's definitely not a purist thing. Like, I know that, I know that if there's like hardcore videographers, you know, filmmakers listening to this, they'll be like, 

Kieran: They'll be switching off their modules.

Jules: Yeah, they will. But the point, the point, the point is, it's not me saying that's what you should do. It's me saying that, you know, if you kind of approach hybrid with a more open mind, as in like, I don't, I don't have to provide the, I'm not providing the couple with the same product as what I would if I was doing, you know.

And you know what, in 

Kieran: a way, putting something like that in maybe a couple of your videos would be potentially a good way to go because it's cutting you back then people see them, see them videos, see that you've got photos in your videos. So if any sticky situations do come up where you can only shoot photo or video, then you kind of covered your back a little bit there, haven't you?

And 

Jules: it's something you can always, you can always put in your contract or you can put it in your, you know, your kind of portfolio. Text, you know, you copy on your website or whatever. You can be like, this is how I do it now again. That's a very few. It's a very minor number of like, if I've done sort of best part of 100 hybrid shots weddings, it it's probably in probably done that with two or three of them.

I mean, I'm just trying to give kind of a broad spectrum. So we've, we've kind of talked about That's like how you might approach those moments like first looks and stuff like that. So they're the same moment. So let's go through the moments where you're going to have those problems and see if there's anything you might do slightly different.

So we've, we've talked about the first look, then we're going on to the ceremony. I mean, for me, the ceremony is very much the same, but you're going, you're definitely going to set up that camera on the tripod. 

Kieran: Yeah. 

Jules: So how, how kind of are you going about that? 

Kieran: So, same way for me, so I'll set either two, two tripods up, different angles, or just one, which is pretty much just shooting straight at the couple and that's literally just locked off.

So, I'll, I'll just frame that to make sure that wherever I go in that, I won't be walking into that frame. Which in the ceremony is pretty easy because the majority of the time I'm at the front shooting towards the guy I'm doing. When they walk back down the aisle, I'll probably speak the camera up on my tripod, take it to the back, press record again, let it film them walking down the aisle while I'm photographing.

That's slightly, that's slightly trickier I think when it comes to like speeches and whatnot, but maybe we can come back onto that part when we get to speeches. But yeah, the ceremony side of it. To me, I find probably one of the easiest because it is literally just unlocked off camera. The other, the other option I have is when the bride, say when the bride's walking down the aisle to meet the groom, is it walking down the aisle or walking up the aisle?

Jules: I think it's, I think, I think it's down the aisle. Up the aisle. Is it, I think, up the aisle? Do you know what? It's a weird one, that's a weird one, isn't it? Because there isn't no, there isn't, there isn't a gradient. No, 

Kieran: there isn't, no, there isn't. When the, when the bride is walking to the groom. If I've got a moment, if it's a good long walk down, I'll definitely be switching between photo and video on, on like my handheld as well.

I'm just getting a couple of shots of that, so it's got a bit more motion in it. And the same again for like putting the ring on. So, I'll never do it for the first case, I'll leave the first case to the static camera, so then I can get the photo of the first case. By putting the ring on, they're always pausing for a moment and doing this.

Doing the vows and whatnot before they actually put the ring on. So whilst staring that, I mean like I'm showing video here so people that are just listening on the podcast will see this, but while they're holding the ring over the finger, I've got plenty of time to switch for a couple of three second shot of the ring on the finger before I switch back to phone.

Actually capture the moment if.

Jules: Absolutely. Yeah, because that as well, they're going to do it both ways, aren't they? They're both going to do a ring thing. So you can kind of, the way I usually do it is I, I think, right, the first bit, I'm going to get some photos. And then the second, like, as, as I say that the bride's doing the, the, the, the first person, let's say is doing the ring first.

So like, I'll take some photos at the start of that. And then towards the end of it, I'll switch to video. And then I'll keep the video rolling into when the other person starts putting the ring on and then stop and then get a few photos. And that's how I usually do it. 

Kieran: Yeah, and I think that that comes down to more just experiencing being a wedding photographer or videographer and just understanding what moments you have got time to switch between photo and video because I mean if I first started out I'd be freaking out even thinking about switching to video to get a shot of the rings going in but like when you realize that actually the vows take almost probably a minute each don't they while you're putting the ring on before they actually physically put the ring on you realize you've got that time so it's I think it just comes down to experience as well.

Jules: Yeah, that's that's exactly as soon as you're comfortable with the order in which things happen in a wedding and the amount of time that things take. It's like you become familiar with the process. Don't you? That's the hardest. Probably what you're what you're outlining there is probably the hardest thing about doing hybrid shooting is that if you're absolutely brand new and you don't have any experience of weddings, you're not really knowing what the hell is going to happen next.

But if you've done plenty of weddings at that point, you kind of like know what's coming and you know how long it's going to take. And yeah, there'll always be surprises that get thrown up, but it's, it's usually going to happen like this. So I'm ready to do what, you know, I'm ready to get a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

So, yeah, I do the same thing with the locked off camera and then obviously getting a few shots on my handheld photo camera in between getting photos because again, something like the ceremony, you do not need photos of the whole thing. No, we don't. Once you've got two of them looking at each other when they've first got together, you know, you've got, you've got the person coming down the aisle, you get some, you know, you get like, what, three or four shots of that, and then you get a couple of them looking at each other, and then not much happens until they start doing the vows.

And actually, people talking to each other look shit on photos. 

Kieran: Yeah. I 

Jules: think we all feel 

Kieran: guilty of taking thousands of photos of the same moment, don't they? Yeah. But I think, I think part of shooting hybrid is you've got to teach yourself not to over shoot those moments in just one form, rather than shooting all of the moments in photography.

You need to, you need to almost, it's almost just like halving the amount of photos you take and doing the other half in video. So rather than shooting say a hundred photos of them both stood still at the top of the aisle, you shoot 50 photos of them both stood in the same position at the top of the aisle and then you've got a bit more time to shoot.

Exactly.

Jules: It's basically you just have you're thinking about if you would normally be taking more photos. Well, do you need all those photos? I mean, for instance, my hybrid package actually has half the number of photos delivered. Yeah. Now, if, because I'll do another package where I do kind of full photo and video coverage, so I'll, you know, I'll do exactly the same if I was doing full video.

And that is with two people, you know, two shooters. So, and that'll be like what I've done when you've come and worked with me. And normally I'd be shooting with Lindsay potentially or somebody else, but it's, it's kind of I have that. But then the hybrid, I say it's half the number of photos and it's a short highlight film and I might give him the ceremony and speeches as well.

But I'm very clear about how that's not gonna, it's not necessarily gonna be a multi cam thing. It might just be from one camera. And people, some people, that's all they want. They don't need this, like, really fancy production with multi cams and shit like that. So I think we can kind of, we can kind of sort of like look at, that's the ceremony.

You're going to do that for the speeches. So let's just take the audio bit. If you're doing, are you recording audio when you're doing hybrid? Do you, like, get the vowels and 

Kieran: stuff? Yeah. So audio is a bit of a mind game when you first start. But I think, when I first started out, it was harder than it is these days, I mean like, I think you use the same as me now, the TX650s or 660s, I think you actually have a few different types.

But these days it's fairly simple, like it's just a little, little device that you click on to do it. The groom's jacket and maybe the registrar or the vicar's jacket. So it's not, it's not too bad in that sense. It's quite easy, isn't it? Well, do you need to record all the unhybrid? A lot of people that I know that do shoot hybrid now have gone down the easy route.

And I don't blame them for just having music over the top. So it's, it's, it's something that, again I think really you need to make that decision before you start offering kind of what you want to do, because I went down the route of offering audio in my videos. So to take them out now, I think people would feel like they've been a little bit robbed with it.

But yeah, it's, it's something that I think you need to think about before you start off doing the video. 

Jules: But it's like you say, it's just about being clear with the couple so they know what they're getting. And if, if all you want to do is deliver a music type edit then as long as that's what they're expecting, then, you know, you don't even need to worry about the audio.

But how, how are you kind of just talking to me, like, do you find it more difficult, if you were just shooting video, say, do you find it more difficult shooting photo and video and putting the mic on people? 

Kieran: No, so putting the mic on is literally just clicking for a couple of, couple of seconds. The hardest thing is remembering to do it.

So if you, if you, for me, I shoot, predominantly in photography. So then when it comes to shooting photo and video it's just, you need to have in the back of your mind that these key moments are when you need to have them like set up on the, on the subjects. So for me, I only set them up twice. So it's seven and that's it.

I mean, like there's not really any other reason. Why would you want to set up audio or a microphone to anyone apart from that? Yeah, I think in other 

Jules: wedding markets they might do, they might put mics on people for first looks and they might put mics on people for different parts of the day to get, to get like letter readings and things like that.

But how many, how many weddings do you get in the UK where they read letters to each other or something? 

Kieran: Yeah, it might have happened to me in 2007, but I mean like some people do it, some people So yeah, you just need to be aware of that. I mean, like, for me, I need to know if there's any readers during the ceremony.

So, yeah, you just, you need to, you need to, well, I have a form that I send out, and it's a different form to my photography form. On the highway form, it'll have a list, a more extensive list of what's going on. So, during the ceremony, is there any speakers, or readers, who are they? And you need to identify them to me on the day so I can go and connect these mics up to me and whatnot.

But it's just something you just need to be on your game a little bit with in the new hardware. Because if you've said you'll provide it, then they're going to want it, aren't they? And like, not necessarily all, especially if you're only going to be offering a high latch trailer. They're not going to want the full Whatever you do, but they're definitely going to want the most meaningful full words and et cetera, aren't they?

They're not going to want nothing if you've promised them something. Yeah. So it's something you've just got to keep your eye on. 

Jules: Absolutely. I mean, for me, you see, because I do more video than I do photo, it's absolutely no different. videographer, And I get that most people that are going to go in the hybrid route are probably going from photo into video, rather than video into photo.

But it's like the, for me with video, I don't approach it any different when I'm doing hybrid. Like I know I, like you've said about, I gather that information about who's going to be reading in the ceremony, who's giving speeches, and then I'm just going to get those mics out. So basically while, while I'm at the end of bride prep, I'm getting the mics out, I'm getting them ready and I'm setting them recording.

So literally, I don't even have to do anything when I walk into ceremony, I am walking in and putting them, clipping them on to the person that's speaking, it takes about 10 seconds. Now, there are some, there are some times where you really are pushed and rushed for time. But it's still, it's still absolutely fine.

Do you know what I mean? It's still, I still managed to do it. So it's about planning. That's, that's all it 

Kieran: is. Yeah, it definitely is. It's, yeah, it is the fun . 

Jules: So let's take you've, you've explained about like an exit of the ceremony and things like that. Like another thing's pretty, that's pretty difficult is confetti 

Kieran: confetti.

Sure. Yeah. That is a tricky one. So I've done this thing now. I've done it well, it's quite similar to, as I mentioned before, it's, it's . There's two ways I usually do this. It's either, again, a static camera. Which, for me, it works, but it's not usually the style I go for, because with the Confetti, usually, it's a Confetti tunnel.

And I'll want to be walking back through the tunnel with the puppy. If it's a static camera, I'm going to be in a static camera shot for the majority of walking back. So what I usually do is, I usually have the tripod set up quite high, on an angle, and, like, shooting from above. But focusing on, like, a certain point in the, in the tunnel.

If you're following me just so I know that I will get, I will get about five seconds at least of the bride and groom walking through the tunnel. I mean, like, you could even be quite clever and maybe use one or two people as a, as a focus point and know that them two people, the way you want the bride and groom to stop in that confetti tunnel and give each other a kiss or something, so then you've got that on video as well, be able to tie in your video, and then you carry on walking, that's the rest of your process.

If that all makes sense to you. Well, the other option is shoot the whole confetti tunnel in video and do still frames from it to help you see the clients. But again, for me, that's just being clear with my puppies. And like, a lot of my puppies a lot of my clients, they're very similar. And The, what I know they want isn't photographs printed of confetti shots, etc.

Yeah. They're not, they don't do that. So for me, knowing that the quality of the photo from the still frame of the video, while that was mouthful isn't going to be as high as your original photograph, I don't think they're going to be that bothered because they don't really print out, as I said, the confetti shots.

And if they did print it out, it would probably be in an album that they ordered with me. And the photographs from the distil firms are going to be enough quality to put in the holding. Yeah. So they're not going to be blowing up a massive 3 bar, like A3 printout on a wall. Yeah, I mean, it's not really a problem.

It's never been a problem, 

Jules: especially with all the kind of software stuff. Now, for upscaling images, I'd know that you can, as long as you get your shutter speed right when you're, when you're shooting video, the stills that you can pull off a 4K or like now we're talking 6 and 8K, you know, cameras are coming out with 6 and 8K sensors.

Kieran: Yeah, there's no problem with them, especially for like albums and whatnot. You're not gonna, you're not really gonna have a problem. I mean, sometimes I use still frames in my Instagram posts. I know the quality of them are nothing compared, but no one knows the difference. 

Jules: No. because that's that's the proof in the pudding, isn't it?

So we've kind of talked about probably the most difficult parts. What are you doing when you get into like group shots, portraits? How are you approaching that? Because I, I tend to kind of some people don't shoot video of the group shots, for instance, I actually will. If I'm solely by myself, I'll usually set up a tripod next to me.

And the reason is, is because I like to get some video shots of those people together, like, you know, couple with parents and stuff in case I want some shots for the video of the couples with the parents. But and that way I can just focus on doing the photos. But how do you go about that? 

Kieran: So I don't film group shots.

Not many people do, yeah. So that's, yeah, that's an easy one for me. I don't film group shots. But for the portrait ones, of the couples, I usually take them out for, when I'm doing photography, I usually take them out for 10 15 minutes max throughout the day and just capture some pretty natural shots of them just walking along.

Maybe do some quite relaxed poses and stuff, just where they will best nature them. Just having a quick catch up or whatnot, but when it comes to hybrid, I always double the amount of time that I say it's going to take on portraits. So what I usually do is film the in between moments. So if they're walking from one location to the next, say safety wants some shots up on the hills by the venue or something like that, while we walk into the hills, to me, that's the moment where I'm going to be catching the majority of the video.

I can get a couple of clips, a couple of photographs of them walking up whatnot. Easy peasy. But That's a moving moment where, actually, it probably looked better on video than it did just the photographs. I mean, you don't need a bunch of photographs of him walking about So, yeah, I usually sit six double the time in the portrait side of it.

Just start to get some more detailed shots as well of them, like, maybe holding hands, close up of them holding hands and what not, as they're walking, you know, or they're dressed as she's walking, or, you know, them both laughing or something, or getting close to each other, maybe a little kiss or something like that.

We might just have to duplicate the shot a little bit. Really, it's, it's fairly simple stuff. I mean, the majority of my video comes down to a few moments, and it's usually a couple of seconds of bridal prayer. A little, a little few clips of the ceremony, a bit of the first dance, a tiny bit of the speeches, and the bulk of it is the portraits.

So, I probably go heavier on the video side of it when it comes to portraits than I do with the photographs. Mainly because once they're in a position and I've got that photograph, I'll start focusing on the video side of it. And I'll, with the video side of it, I'll probably do two to three different shots of like distance.

Is there a dog bark? Is that your dog bark? It's my 

Jules: dog. Can you hear it? Sorry. Sorry. Sorry to people listening. Get that bloody dog away. 

Kieran: Yeah. So video wise, I'll do different distance shots, et cetera. So I might do a wide, a medium and a close up. So that to me takes a little bit more time than. giving the thought aside a bit.

But yeah, it's pretty simple stuff really, when it comes to, when it comes to the portraits, especially that's, To me, that's the easiest part of the game. 

Jules: So it's like you've got more time than because you are usually you've given, you've given yourself time to do that. You've been straight with a couple about like, it's going to take a little bit more time because we're doing video as well.

So I might have to get you to kind of hold something what you're doing for a little bit longer because I'm going to take a couple of photos and I'm going to get a little bit video. I mean, that's pretty much what I'm saying throughout the day. Like I even do that, you know, in groom prep, like I'll say to the, you know, you know, if like, you know, if you, I prefer to get actual groom prep when they're actually having a laugh and they're doing, you know, they're interacting with each other and they're actually getting dressed.

I prefer that. But if you don't get that for 

Kieran: whatever reason. Rather than them getting undressed, you know, I that. 

Jules: Oh, nice one mate. But like, what I mean is, is like, you know, they, If the if they kind of like, you know, when you don't get the time and you're rushing or you maybe you don't see them till they get to the venue or something and they've got ready somewhere else.

And then you do some bullshit like just tie a little bit. You know, if you're doing that, I just I just literally I proper just take the pace and get some photos and then say, right, all day, all day. Because I'm because I'm just switching to video and they're like, it's quite funny because they can't they can't help but laugh because it's ridiculous.

So actually, then on the video, it makes more sense because it actually looks like they're naturally taking a piece of each 

Kieran: other. Yeah. 

Jules: Cool. So Yeah, I pretty much do things exactly the same way. So the last bit, obviously, we won't go into speeches too much because I think speeches are a bit weird for photos.

I think it's great to get people's reactions, people smiling, laughing, you know, someone, the best man says something, you know, the bride's like heading around and groom's like, you know, pissed off with him, whatever. I think it's great, great to get those reaction type shots. But essentially, you know, people just talking doesn't look very good on photo.

Yeah. So you might want to get more video of the speeches than you do photos. And essentially that's, that's kind of, I would set up a static camera to make sure I get that. And I would also switch between photo and video to get some extra clips. 

Kieran: So I, for me, the speeches is probably the trickiest part about it.

It's only a while to figure out how best to, to do it. So I used to get static cameras, but the problem was that I want to kind of shoot quite close to the top table when we're doing the speeches. And when I was doing that, it made me get in front of the video. So I was literally, there was shots of me walking in video, and it's just not what I wanted.

So there's really only one way I shoot that, and I was, you know, static camera again, but I'll have that really close up to the top table, right angle, on an edge of the top table. Tune towards the speaker and hopefully get my reaction with like the bride and broom or the bribe if it's looking speaker.

Which then gives me a bit more space to stand behind the camera photographing. And the only problem is with that is that in a lot of the pictures you'll be able to see the camera, but the good thing about that is you can edit the, the camera out a lot easier when you come a video. So I can just edit them cameras out, which isn't really a problem.

I mean, I'll have them almost say hi anyway. Look, you know. So, it's a pretty easy edit. Yeah, I find that probably the trickiest one. If you're not going to do that, just be prepared that you will end up walking across this early video to get like a moment of one of Bridesmaids crying or the father of the bride laughing or what not.

You just need to be aware of when you're setting your cameras up so you don't walk into shots too much and potentially ruin that shot, don't you? 

Jules: That's it's good. I think I think that's a great way to do it if that's your style of photo. So I know you're shooting primes and you're going to want to get those more up close reactionary shots.

Yeah. So, like, my I think this is probably because I've come. I don't come from photo. I come from video into photo and I just prefer to shoot longer. And that's why I've got that 35 to 1 50 because at 1 50 I can be miles away and get really close up shots of reactions. So Because I've got my video on a tripod near the back and zoomed in and then I can basically stand next to it or I can move around the room getting kind of like snipe type shots from a distance, which isn't everyone's cup of tea and it isn't everyone's style.

Kieran: primes because you're selling listening to this. 

Jules: I'll say I'll tell you now, like I have tried. I've tried primes. I've tried lots of different types of lenses and everybody, you know, all the purists going about primes, but I'm hearing more and more people talk about zooms now, and I've been shooting with zooms for the last four or five years now.

I've still got primes. I pull them out. I'll use them in a portrait session. I'll use them on the dance floor, but I don't use them all day because Certainly for like ceremony, speeches, prep, I just find that the zoom does like a lot more, it gives a lot more versatility. I can get things a lot quicker. Obviously with hybrid, if you're trying to get both photo and video, that speed is is a real plus.

Kieran: Yeah. I mean, another subject that we can discuss another time is like the equipment that we use, but that's an interesting one because I shoot prime for both photo and if I had just a videography job, I'd use the exact same lenses, the 35 and 85, to shoot the video. Thinking about it, shooting hybrids, you could potentially benefit from telephoto lenses.

In my eyes, yeah, I can see that would make things a lot easier. 

Jules: Yeah, and I feel like it, I feel like it does. And that's why I went, that lens wasn't cheap and it's really heavy. So it's, it's kind of, it's an investment financially is that lens. This is the Tamron 35 150, but it's also kind of, you have to be committed to carrying this massive lens around all day.

So do you use 

Kieran: that the entire day about it? 

Jules: The entire day now, whether I'm doing photo, video or hybrid, I will have that on one of my cameras. And then the other camera, I'll either have a 16 to 35 because I, I particularly like really wide shots, particularly on the dance floor or for some quite kind of different, unique type.

shots, you know, like documentary type shots. Or I've got a 24 prime or I'll put maybe the 85 on the other camera for some portrait stuff because I want like a really shallow depth of field. That's, that's pretty much what I'll do. So Dancefloor, last thing. It's been quite a long one, this. 

Kieran: Yeah, I'm speaking in an hour.

It's because Jules messed up the first one and didn't cross the floor. So 

Jules: Dancefloor what, what, how, what's your take on that? Because you said speech, you think speeches is the hardest part of the day. I would say Dancefloor is the hardest part of the day for me because I think to get really good dance floor video when you're not focusing on it is probably the hardest thing to do.

Kieran: Yeah. So, for me, I, I just simplified the dance floor because it was, it was a tricky, tricky one to do. Especially the first dance. So yeah, the 

Jules: first dance is what I'm thinking because the rest of the night you can take your time, can't you? Yeah, 

Kieran: you can. So, really, I In my videos, I don't, I don't have huge amounts of shots of the first dance, so there is pretty much the, the tell story sign of what you get when I shoot the wedding video.

The first dance I focused purely on photography, and then once, once I've got them moments I think I've captured, I'll quickly flip and get a 10 second shot of them doing a bit of dancing. And then the majority of. For evening dancing, I'll focus quite heavily on, well actually, I'll probably 50 50 that with photo and video because the first dance shot, you don't, in my videos anyway, I don't need more than 10 seconds if I'm dancing, and we usually dance for 2 3 minutes, don't we?

Yeah. So 10 seconds, 10 seconds a video is simple for me. Once I've got that shot, easy peasy, the next, the next thing I do is just get some really close up dance shots. With people going mad on the dance floor. Which kind of is the, obviously the end of the, well it doesn't have to be the end of the video, it depends how you edit it, but a lot of the time it's a good ending to a video, isn't it?

There's people dancing on the dance floor, etc. Yeah, I'll just focus on some moments of that. But yeah, it's pretty simple when it comes to that. I don't, I don't really overthink that either and I'll make it, I've very much simplified it. Because otherwise it can be quite difficult. Especially with the cameras that I shoot with.

The focusing system isn't the best system. So if I set it up on a tripod, and then they're moving about all over the spot, my focus will lose them. 

Jules: It's not gonna track, yeah. 

Kieran: It's not, it's not, it will track for a certain amount, but if they do some wild, like, good. That's not even wild, but if he's twirls around or something like that, my family's probably not going to know which one to focus on when it comes to video.

So I lose it. So I'm not even going to risk trying to offer people I mean, we're going to talk about cameras and different cameras when we're not in another episode, but I'm not even going to try and sell people an idea of giving them a first dance in full because, you know, That would give me too much pressure to do it.

So I'd have to very much focus just on the video side of it and be missing out on the photos. So for me, yeah, I just simplified it. 

Jules: It's good, it's good to hear you say that because I think I think that's made me maybe rethink a little bit about my approach when I'm doing hybrid. Because, again, because I've come mainly from video.

I've got this mindset of trying to record, like, those types of moments. And not, not every videographer will give the couple the full first dance, but I do. So I think I try to record it in full because I feel like, well, it's one of them things that happens once and they might, they might hate it and never want to watch it again.

But I mean, I think 

Kieran: there was, I think there was only one occasion and you were with me. It's a wedding venue where it was a really good first dance. Jen and Elliot. 

Jules: Oh, yes. If 

Kieran: you can remember. So, they, I mean, like, they were, well, she used to be a dancer, didn't she? So, like, she choreographed, there we go, the whole, is that right?

The whole thing. That's 

Jules: it. 

Kieran: Which was, which was amazing. So, yeah, I can kind of see why maybe then someone wouldn't want the full recording of the first dance. However, 90 percent of the time, the first dance is something that a lot of people will probably watch back if it's a full, full video of the first dance and think, oh, my God, like, Yeah, what were I doing?

Do you know what I mean? Why am I doing that? So, from my view, like, I don't think, if it was me getting married, I wouldn't, I'm not bothered about seeing me trying to dance for three minutes straight. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be interested in seeing that. I think a lot of people, I don't think it's, 

Jules: I think, I forgot a lot of people, but I think and maybe it's because I do more video than anything else, but like I get a lot of people actually, you know, doing a proper dance.

I sometimes get, I sometimes get like special dances as well where I wear bridesmaids or like the, the bride might be a dancer and might have might be part of a dance school or something and I've done three weddings now from the same dance school and they all do this massive fancy dance. Oh really?

And I know that they're recording in full. 

Kieran: Yeah well there you go it comes down to the kind that you've got then doesn't it and who you're talking so yeah I suppose that one that one's just one that you're just gonna have to 

Jules: play by but 

Kieran: it's also 

Jules: sorry mate 

Kieran: I 

Jules: was just gonna say it's it's You can do it different ways.

You know, there's not one way to do it. And actually, when I'm in a pinch with something like the first dance, I've always got a wide, I've always got a video wide. That's, you know, quite high up looking, you know, so I can basically deliver even if it's just in that one video of the wide and then maybe a couple of clips.

Where it's, I've got some closer up bits of the first dance, you know, a little bit of really tight on the hands, you know, or feet or faces and then maybe a couple of clips of like a mid shot. But once you've got that and you cut that into your static wide on a tripod, you've, you've, you've nailed it. 

Kieran: Yeah, I mean like there's other, there's other options as well for like the, well not the first dance but the dancing, evening dancing and what not.

But I've done a few times, it's a little bit risky so make sure you've got your insurance for it but I've got a GoPro and I've got a little handle for it. And I, I give it to the, I give it to the guests and walk around and let them dance and film themselves dancing because it actually does make quite a good scene.

And what they don't realise is they're having a great time but they're doing the job for them. They're capturing some really cool moments. So, if you're doing video, you could let, you could let, or doing, sorry, if you're doing hybrid, you could let them do the majority of the dancefloor video for you while you're focusing on the dancing.

So we'll do the cheeky tricky one the cheeky trick that one. It's a good one though, 

Jules: mate, yeah. Yeah, it's pretty 

Kieran: cool. It works. I mean, like sometimes it works, other times it doesn't work. Sometimes you just get people pulling weird faces at the camera, but other times it worked quite well, so it might be worth a shot if you're struggling to 

Jules: I've never done that.

I have given them, you know, like, if they've been getting in a car or something, you know, the, to, like, traveling between prep and the thing, and I've thought I don't, I'm not going to be there and I'm going to miss a bit and I, and they might there might be something I want. So I have actually given like to the most sensible groomsman is the cam, is the GoPro type camera.

Will you just get me a few clips? But again, you're right. And it's hit and miss whether that works, but but it's, it's, it's, it's a good one that about the dance floor. So, right, mate, that's been great. So just to, like, kind of wrap it up, what it's about, isn't it? It's about, there's a few points. One is about understanding weddings.

So it's about having that knowledge of the order of things that typically happen on a wedding day. And that will be different depending on where you are. So what happens in the US or an Asian wedding might not be the same as what happens in the UK. And I think that that's one of the things that's without going into a different topic.

That's one of the things that's quite difficult about education because when you're listening to a podcast that's from like America, but you work in the UK, like a UK wedding is clearly not the same as most us weddings. And I've, I've, I've had like us I've worked with us couples. I'm sure you have.

And their weddings do seem to be slightly different to how we're used to it. So it's kind of knowing how, how that wedding is going to, wherever you're working, whoever you're working with, whatever the couple like, it's about understanding what, what's going to happen at the timings for things. And it's about setting expectations.

And if you do those three things and you're really like confident. and clear about using your equipment as in like, you know, I've got this, I didn't just buy this camera yesterday and I haven't got a freaking clue how it works. But if you know how to set it up and you've got it set up how you want it and you know how to quickly switch between photo and video, whether you're switching on a dial or you've got like a memory button or whether it's set up so that, for instance, me, I can literally press the shutter.

It takes a photo. And then I press the record button and I'm straight into video. Like I don't change any settings at all. So I'm literally using the same settings. And when I'm doing hybrid, I'm thinking my shutter speed stays around this point. My aperture is basically going to compensate for the. if it gets too bright, but I'm also going to think about you know, do, what do I want that shallow depth of field?

And then I'm just going to use my ISO if it gets too dark, but I'm not going to be going crazy all over the place with my settings because I want to be able to get the same exposure, whether I'm shooting photo or video. 

Kieran: Yeah. 

Jules: I 

Kieran: think, I think especially You might disagree with me on this, but I think when you first started out Shin Hybrid, I wouldn't, I wouldn't worry too much on the technical side.

I'd focus more on just trying to 

Jules: capture it, figure 

Kieran: out the story. Yeah. So, I mean, the technical stuff will come later on, won't it? It's, it's just figuring out how to capture that story and then, then moments really. And then once you've, once you've got that, it'll come naturally and then you just need to focus a little bit more on the settings to achieve the style that you're in.

Jules: Absolutely, mate. That's been really good. Thanks for all your input on that because it's been good to kind of bounce stuff off each other. 

Kieran: Yeah. 

Jules: We're coming to the end of the episode and we're going to talk about the song of the week because I said that's what we do. So What's the song of the week this 

Kieran: week, Jules?

Jules: I'm just bringing it in now. I don't know if you can hear it. It's quite quiet. So yeah, so a little precursor. I don't know what you use at the moment, but I use Musicbed for all my licensed music. They're not sponsoring the podcast at the moment, but there's, there's numerous music sites I've used over the years and I just think the Musicbed, the music tends to be just a bit better quality, well not a bit better, a lot better quality and I find that the, the sort of music that I want to use is on there, whereas some of the other platforms, there's, I'm limited by, there's only a couple of artists that I'll ever use.

Yeah, they're all the 

Kieran: same actually, music that is music that is the go to one. 

Jules: Yeah. So this is taken from their site and today's song is The Epilogue by Chapters. So it's like a really nice, perfect contrast between intrigue and intense. It's almost like I'm doing like a food review here. I'm like kind of, you know, What do we do in between?

Kieran: Do we just stare each other in the eyes whilst I'm not suggesting that we 

Jules: listen to the full song, mate. We will, we will play the full song out. How long is the full 

Kieran: song? 

Jules: It's about four minutes, I think. But basically it's kind of got softness and elegance as this one like a really great build up and then a nice crescendo near the end.

So if you're wanting something where you're like really building up this kind of like dramatic feel, but it's not too like da, da, da, it's more, you know, You know, it's kind of quite soft and it, it kind of builds up really slowly, works really well for that kind of ethereal type feel, but where there's at the end, there's some pretty good dancing.

So I just, I just thought this might be helpful for people who are making wedding films and are struggling to find music that if every week we've got a song that I've used or you've used and it might be worth people having a look and put it on the list. 

Kieran: There you go. 

Jules: So that's it for this episode.

Thank you everyone for joining us and we hope that you join us for the next one. 

Kieran: What for now?