E87 | Introducing my new co-host Kieran Paul

It's time for a change and to freshen up the podcast and we are starting a new series by introducing our new co-host Kieran Paul and photographer and filmmaker who has been in the game for almost a decade. 

In this episode we get to find out all about how Kieran got into photography/filmmaking in his early years, how he made his way into the wedding industry and we chat a little bit about what is to come next with the podcast.

The How to Shoot Hybrid Podcast is for photographers and videographers who capture weddings, live events, work with commercial clients and work on creative projects. We discuss different topics around photography and filmmaking as well as interview guests in the photography, filmmaking and hybrid content creation industries.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/howtoshoothybrid

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hybridjules

Website: https://www.yourstorystudios.co.uk/education/#Podcast

Transcript

Jules: It's the how to shoot hybrid podcast, discussing topics around photography, videography, and running a business. My name's Jules and I'm here with my co host, my new co host, Kieran. And on this episode, we're basically having a chat about what. Kieran does, where he's kind of got into doing photo and video from, and a bit of background and how he's ended up being the co host on the podcast.

So, hi Kieran, welcome mate. 

Kieran: Hello Jules, thank you for having me. 

Jules: No problem. 

Kieran: So, where's the, where's the intro music? I want like a really upbeat intro music, like welcome me, like, you know, like Rocky Balboa walks on or something. 

Jules: If you want, I'll do that. I think we might get a copyright strike if I put Rocky on.

No, possibly I will. 

Kieran: I should have known that really shouldn't I? But . 

Jules: But I will I will put some music on afterwards in post. I'll find something appropriate for you. Cool. Alright. 

Kieran: Yeah. Pick something. Good. 

Jules: So I've obviously recorded quite a few episodes of the podcast now. And rather than me later on, I think the best thing for you to do is kind of introduce yourself.

You can talk about your business that you've got now, and then we'll go back to, you know, early doors when you're maybe teenager or whatever, because I know that you're, you've always been into photo photography. In fact, you, you're much more into photography and the kind of artistic side of it than I've ever been.

So, if we start with kind of what your business is, and then we can go back and explain your background in photography and filmmaking. Perfect, 

Kieran: yeah, let's go. So, I'm Kieran from Kieran Paul Photography. I've been running it for roughly, I keep saying this, about ten years, but it's probably more than ten years now.

I really need to count how long I've been doing it for. Predominantly documentary photography with a little twist of editorial. I'm from York, if I didn't already say that, and I work nationally. I shoot both photography, videography and hybrid. And yeah. Ask me more questions, Jules. 

Jules: Cool. So, I mean, you said you're from York.

Yeah. Now I know we get a lot of listeners from overseas, so there are quite a lot in the United States and North America. So, York, just kind of put that on the map for us, because I sometimes refer to different parts of the UK when I'm talking about things on the podcast, but I know that it's, It's a bit, it's a bit of a different kettle of fish compared to somewhere like North America.

Yeah, yeah. So whereabouts is York? York, you know, like, I, I'm, I'm kind of in South Yorkshire, just in South Yorkshire. You're in North Yorkshire. Which part of Yorkshire? Is it North Yorkshire? Yeah, North Yorkshire, it's 

Kieran: Calendars. So yeah, if you are from America listening, it is a tourist destination, so head over.

And you'll enjoy it. Yeah, there's lots to see. It is, isn't it? Because 

Jules: it's where all the history and stuff is. All the historical 

Kieran: stuff's going on here, yeah. Yeah, if you like Romans, this is the place to be. 

Jules: Yeah, you get a lot of people, don't you traveling over from places like America. And one of the destinations to visit is York.

It's almost I wouldn't say it's as popular as London, but it's probably, definitely second, third, fourth most popular destination to visit. Yeah, it's a pretty historical place. Yeah. So, so let's kind of, you've, you've given a context of your business. Let's rewind to back in whenever it was. Let's go back to the first time you kind of got into photography.

It can be in any way, because if I, if I was to give my back story, which I'm not sure I've ever gone far back, but I've always been taking photos and and things. I think my, my first recollection was, you know, those, I don't know if you can remember these, but they were like really shit. Film cameras that were like, This is showing, this is showing your age, Jules.

You 

Kieran: forget I'm, I'm younger than you, Jules. I don't, what's, what's a film camera? I have no idea. I 

Jules: know. 

Kieran: Come 

Jules: on. You do, you know about film cameras. Like really, like really shit film cameras way before like digital was even a thing. And when I was growing up, I had like a little cap, you know, a proper what you would class as a point and shoot these days, but point and shoot film camera that used to get your film developed at boot.

So that was kind of my thing of photography, but that was just me, you. techie snaps and mates and family and stuff like that. What, what was yours? 

Kieran: I remember, I remember the first time I picked up a cat. Well, actually I might've picked up one on a little point and click ones before, but, we, we used to live in South Africa as kids.

Our parents took us out there. Wow. 

Jules: I didn't even know that. Oh yeah. There you go. 

Kieran: And my dad bought my sister a camera 35mm I think it was. And I was really pissed off that she got it, so I used it the majority of the time, wouldn't give her it back. So we used to do, we used to do safaris quite a bit.

So my dream was to be David Attenborough's second side, well, sidekick. I'm going to photograph all of his, all of his adventures and whatnot. But instead I'm photographing weddings. Yeah. So a bit of a change, but yeah, so that was the, that was the first time really I picked up a camera and I just got hooked from that really.

Yeah. So from there just used to get the camcorders, the cameras, film our little, little adventures here and there. And eventually ended up going to college after school, not really knowing what I wanted to do. And I fell into graphic design. And part of that, part of that section was photography.

So we used to go into the, we used to go into the darkroom. So, I do know, I do know a bit of the film side of it, Jules. Yeah, we used to go into darkrooms, fell in love with it even more there. And then from there, went on to University of Teesside to do TV and film production. And yeah, it was alright.

I ended up, getting quite popular with the, with the rest of the team for my film work and whatnot, so got re involved with the with the camera work side of stuff rather than, like, the storytelling and the scripting and whatnot, but yeah, it was good. Anyway, left uni. Reality struck that a lot of this work is freelance, so I ended up just getting a, a job.

Gosh, I've, I've, I've had loads of jobs before, wedding photography. But one of my friends on the course at uni, I saw he was doing wedding videography and at the time he was a mint, brilliant mint, look at that proper Yorkshire accent. He was a, he was a brilliant he was a brilliant editor. I was a better videographer and I saw his movies and I was like, bloody hell man, they are good.

I thought I'm going to, I'm going to get into it. I'll, I'll smash this. And yes, I ended up getting into wedding videography to start with. And I was absolutely terrible. It was appalling. So it was it was a complete, complete learning curve for me getting into the wedding industry, but yeah, that's pretty much how I started it.

Jules: And when, so when you're talking about getting into the wedding industry, can you remember like how long ago that was? Do you, you know, do you remember roughly like the year? Cause I know that you, when I first met you, you had a different business than what you've got now, didn't you? I 

Kieran: will have been, I think it was roughly in 2014.

Yeah. I think I started doing wedding, wedding photography and videography. Like you said, so you said 10, you said around 10 years, so yeah, 10 years you've been in the industry. I can't, I can't remember when we, you met each other, I know it was, I know which venue it was, I just can't remember what year that was.

Jules: I think it was 2017. Yeah, sounds about right. Because 

Kieran: it was the year 

Jules: I started, like that, that was my, I think that was my second ever paid job that I saw you at. Yeah. So, yeah, will have been, it was a couple of years before then. Point. I've done freebies. Yeah. Yeah. 

Kieran: It was a couple of years before I met you.

I been, so yeah, about 10 years. 10 years ago. Bloody hell. Yeah. 

Jules: I may allowed to swear on this podcast. I know. Yes. Yeah, we can do it. We, well May. Okay, cool. We just have to put it, we just bleep it out. Bleep it 

Kieran: out. I've got terrible language. Yeah. . 

Jules: Right. So when you, when you got into it, then you've obviously mentioned about this friend that you went to uni with that was getting into wedding videography, and then you, you kind of do it, did other jobs and then you kind of didn't go straight into it because you realised a lot of it was freelance.

So I'm guessing when you say that you, you went just like I did. I had a, I had like a proper job. So you went and got a job where you were getting paid a salary and working for somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, Were you working for somebody else and started the, the, the kind of business on the side?

Kieran: Yes, I was walking, working for someone else. And then one of my colleagues was into photography. So I said, Oh, why don't we do, why don't we do weddings as a bit of a side earner? And he was up for it. So we went on classical Gumtree, got our first few weddings from there. Definitely weren't portfolio builders, but the experience we got from them was it was great.

Yeah. And then we just went from there really. 

Jules: And then like the business, do you, do you feel like that? Cause I remember you doing photo and video. So it was interesting for me because when I first started out I actually got that gig because I think you were, you were whittling it down because y'all mate was, was.

Kind of going off to do some ads. And I think I got that gig because you didn't want to do the video side of it anymore. So you were doing the photo. So you were the, you were the dregs Jules. I think you were supposed to be doing the video. You were the dregs. I was the dregs. Right. I mean it worked, worked out for me.

Kieran: I'll tell you what, honestly. But that's that. When I remember, I remember that day. And I remember like you talking to saying like you were newbie and stuff and like, like you do see a lot of people coming and going, don't you? So I was, like, really intrigued, like, because we had a good chat, didn't we? I was really intrigued to see, like, the footage that you'd, you'd got from the day.

Because, like, it didn't really look like you were, you were doing much, but then when you produced that video, I was like, bloody I didn't know what we're doing, that's why. I tell you what, though, that video is awesome for your second video. Like, it blew my mind. I was like, shit, he's actually, he's really good.

Honestly, yeah, it was good. 

Jules: Do you know that that is a topic in itself because I, I don't, I don't look back on that video and think it was terrible, but I don't look, you know, for, for where I was in, in the stage of kind of learning this and starting my business, but I don't, I look back on it. And I actually feel like the first few years I was way more creative than I am now.

And so that's a topic that I think we should talk about at some point in the future because I just felt like the naiveness and the kind of just trying stuff and not being afraid to not being too in my head about it. I think that that was amazing. And I feel like over time I got too safe and too, like a bit too strategic about what I was doing.

So, yeah, you sort of, we met each other then and you saw, you saw the video that I'd done for that. I got that job basically because you were just going to focus on photo and what happened, I think, in that, in, in the six months after that was your mate left the business that you had together and you started like kind of a different, you know, you started under a different name, didn't you, the one that you've got today.

Yeah. And you were just doing photo, I think, at that point, back in 2017 ish. Cut it 

Kieran: out to photo. I mean, like, back then, like, video was a thing, but it wasn't as popular, so for me to make it a full time business, it just made sense to predominantly just shoot photography. So that was kind of like the logic behind that.

But yeah, I ended up a couple of years down the line. Go on, sorry. 

Jules: No, I was just going to say, at that point, you still had your job as well, didn't you? 

Kieran: I did have my job at that point, yeah. I mean, like, I was, it was, it was slowly whittling down, so, I think at that point I probably could have gone full time, but it was, it was the leap of faith that a lot of people need to take, isn't it?

It was that, that nervous moment of leaving your job and, and getting out there, but I mean, luckily I was made redundant, so it pretty much made my choice for me, really. But yeah, it was, it was a bit of a, it was a bit of a change. But yeah, then a couple of years later, I think I'd been shooting weddings for about four years full time, decided to get back into the videography side of things as well.

So I was, I was shooting videos, solely videos, not photography. And then I think probably a year or two after that, I was getting a bit of an itch thinking like I can shoot both photography and hybrid together. So yeah, just, I mean, I think probably the same as you really, the first couple, the first couple of couples that were upcoming on my diary, in my diary, I just offered them at a really cheap price.

Just offer them like a short highlight video just to see what I needed to do and how I could do it. I think, I think a lot of people, I mean I talk to a lot of people that are asking or they're wanting to find out about hybrid photography, and maybe I'm not sure if we're going into too deep a discussion here, but finding out about hybrid photography and they're like saying how do you do it, like it must be so stressful and whatnot, but it's not, it's, it's actually, I mean you'll probably agree it's pretty straightforward stuff and I think a lot of people just need to jump into it and do it.

To see, to see how easy it actually is these days. I'm whittling on a little bit here, aren't I? 

Jules: No, no, it's good. It's all good. It's all good stuff. I mean, it's the how to shoot hybrid podcaster. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to talk about, we're going to talk about topics that are more photography related and some that are more videography and filmmaking related.

But this is like, you know, the platform, if you like, for talking about being multi skilled and potentially doing them both together at the same time. So I, you know, it's good stuff to, to hear. your thought process and progression into that, because obviously you've, you've done, you've done film at uni, you've done some videography when you first started your business with your friend, and then you've kind of moved over to photography and focused on that for a while.

Then you've kind of moved back and started doing some film as well, doing like a mixture of some photography, some film, then you've started. Trying to do both together and doing the hybrid service and offering that. And I, I guess, you know, what's the, the interesting question is, is that because you could see the market for it?

Is that because you could see that you could do it and there was a market for it? And so it made a natural business sense. Yeah, 

Kieran: that's, that is a good question, Jules. Well done. I think a lot of the couples that I attract, the type of couples that book me because a lot of, I mean, like 99, 99 percent of my work is documentary.

Yeah. So it's not, like, really posy, type of photography, or work, should I say. So, I could see that a lot of them didn't want extra crew, because it'd just add nerves to their day. So I thought to myself, I could potentially shoot the video for them, myself, as well as the photography. I think, I think seeing a lot of them and talking to a lot of couples, they didn't get a videographer.

Not because of the cost or anything, just because of the fact that they were nervous about the idea of having two cameras in the face. Whereas, if it's just one person shooting hybrid You haven't really got that problem. I mean, there's another topic there as well where like, it's about being a people person and putting people at ease, so if you've got a couple of photographers on the dare, they know what they're doing, they will be able to put someone at ease anyway, but I think initially when people do book, if they're that type of couple that don't like the idea of having the photographs taken, they're not going to like the idea of having the video taken either.

So, kind of kills two birds with one stone, isn't it? Yeah. 

Jules: Yeah, that's so true. And, and the thing is, what, what you've basically said there in, in a very kind of short few paragraphs is you You summarizing why people might want to offer hybrid because there's a, I definitely think that there's or in the past has definitely been an industry thing of photography is photography, videography is videography and you hire specialists for each one.

And I can see the reason why you would. Why people would think that that's how it should be done, because I do think that people's issue with hybrid shooting is that how can you possibly do a really good job on both? But, what you've just described is, is that a lot of the couples that are out there, You know, there are couples for everyone.

There are couples that want absolute production and they want ten people shooting the wedding, five photographers, five videographers. They want cranes and they want, you know, all sorts of stuff and they want literally a studio set up. And then there are people that look when we enjoy the wedding day, but they actually do like the idea of the storytelling of the day on the one as much coverage, and they want to see it in different ways as possible.

But they don't want all that shit that goes with it. That makes that takes for them, everyone's different, but for them, we'll take away from their wedding. Yeah, absolutely. So what, what you're describing there is, is exactly kind of the way that's how I've grown. My hybrid side of the business is exactly the same as you.

It's those couples that they like, they like the idea of simplicity and whether that's one person or whether that's two people doing it, it doesn't really matter, but it certainly isn't four or six or eight people doing it. 

Kieran: I think, I mean, like, there's loads of topics we could go into about the pros and cons of hybrid photography.

Maybe, maybe more, more episodes to come on it. But even like, I remember one day shooting well, photographing a wedding and there was a videographer there as well. I'd never met them before. And, Then when I was looking at their work, it was a completely different style to mine and I didn't, I didn't quite understand the reasons why you'd book a photographer of one style and a videographer of the other style because as much as we got on and we worked well together on the day, like, the styles will clash, like, if he wants posed photos but they want natural photos or I want, sorry, if they, he wants posed photos, video, and I want just natural walking long shots and all that, and like, the couple don't really, I think that's part of what a couple don't know what they want at that point.

But looking, looking at the results of his video compared to my work, it was like two completely, completely different styles. So, in my head again, I think, I went through a lot of pros and cons about like, shooting hybrid when I was thinking about doing it. But in, in my head, the idea of having the same style video as the same style photos, would merge really well for someone, especially when delivering the gallery.

It's not gonna, it's not going to look out of place at all. So yeah, that was, that was enough. But yeah, again, another topic that we could go deep into the pros and the pros and cons of hybrid. Yeah, 

Jules: absolutely. And that, and that's, that's what I mean. That's why there's so much, there's so much scope to talk about different things, whether it's business stuff or whether it's actual, the kind of shooting side of it, now.

What you've just said there is exactly, it's a really good reason why I think that we will be good co hosts on this, because we don't have this, I don't, I wouldn't say we have the same style. We might have a similar approach, but in terms of the aesthetics of our work, I, you know, we don't necessarily have the same style.

And we've, we've worked together before, you know, doing photo and video either kind of. Alongside each other, completely separately, or we've hired each other as like a second shooter or whatever, and however you look at that, you know, it's, we can make that work as working with each other as second shooters, but also, you know, my style is different to your style.

So there will be couples that hire you and there'll be couples that hire me for different reasons. Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, you don't always get to work with the there's someone who complements your style necessarily, and sometimes that doesn't matter. And sometimes if it's really, really, like, I think it matters a lot more with the approach.

Obviously, the aesthetics being the same is a good thing. But it doesn't have to be. The approach definitely does. So if you get someone who's really difficult, really difficult to work with, that can impact the day. especially if, you know, if you're very chilled, laid, laid back, hands off, and the other person's really intense, that, that can be an ink.

And so for me, shooting hybrid, I, if I knew I was shooting alongside you, I would look forward to that day. If I knew I was working alongside somebody else, you know, doing video and they were doing photo, for instance, I would wish I was, I'm not going to say, but you know, there are, there are different people that you can think of.

Who's, you just don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you know that you don't have the same approach to it. So, so even though it's cool and everything works out fine, you know that, If you were doing hybrid on that day, it would just work different, wouldn't it? Because you would do it, you would approach it in your way.

And sometimes I think, for me, because I predominantly do video, you're probably more photo. For me, I get stressed out for the couple sometimes when I see how the photographer is leading things. And I'm thinking, I'm thinking this couple don't seem like the kind of people who wanted that on their wedding day.

But they've got it. Mm-Hmm. . You know what I mean? And I don't think they knew what they were hiring at the time. Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, like that's, and why would they, why would they hire me if they were gonna hire this person? 

Kieran: Yeah. It's part of part partly down to educating the couple as well, I suppose.

Jules: Yeah. And, and when you're doing video, you don't really get a chance to do that. No, you don't. 'cause they've probably hired the photographer way before. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, so that's why I think that me and you would be good at co hosting, because I think that we'll, we'll potentially have different experiences and different opinions on things at the same time as both having the experience of doing both photo and video separately, but also the kind of hybrid side of it.

Kieran: Agreed. Absolutely agreed. 

Jules: And obviously you've, you've, you've kind of, you've come from being educated and you've done it at uni, I've also done, done that at uni and, and although later in life and, and I think that, you know, you've got a shared, shared experience there with the fact that you've, because a lot of people don't.

don't necessarily go to university or college and study this stuff. Yeah. They, they kind of have an interest in photography or filmmaking, they end up in it and then they kind of need to make some money from it and then they somehow end up in weddings. But, you know, in a way, me and you have both kind of one way or another chosen this path.

Yeah. So. I don't know. I wouldn't 

Kieran: say I chose to, I wouldn't say I chose to be a wedding photographer. I kind of fell into it. But, I mean, did you, when you were growing up, did you think I'm going to be a wedding photographer? 

Jules: Oh, certainly not. Certainly not. But when I was when I was looking for a career change, like when I met you, I was literally at a point where, I was still technically getting paid by my old job and I was, but I knew I was going to leave.

And I was basically thinking, you know, I, I'm, I'm gonna try and make myself become a wedding videographer. So how, how did you go from the 

Kieran: career that you were in to thinking wedding photography or videography that you've never, you've never done before? Or did, did you do it for like a friend or family member or?

Jules: No, mate, I literally, decided, I think I'd been going to weddings. I'd liked, I'd liked photo and video as in I've got a camera and I was taking photos and stuff for my kids and I'd always been taking video of my mates and my family. I took, I used to take a massive Hi8 camcorder tape recorder effort. on holidays with my mates and like record, you know, lads holidays and stuff.

And I've been doing that my, my whole life with one, you know, obviously we had shitty film cameras and stuff and I've been doing this my whole life, like just for fun, just for me, it's always been an interest, but never as like a profession, never as a something I actually really cared about in a artistic way.

And, I knew, I knew nothing. I knew nothing from a art and photography perspective. I knew nothing from a technical perspective and I knew nothing in terms of like having a business or anything. And I just decided I've been to loads of weddings. What's a job I could do that would be quite nice and would involve some of those things I'm interested in.

And then I just started doing, I literally. Bought some equipment, watched loads of YouTube tutorials, and, God, I love YouTube. My brother was going to do it with me. Yeah, my brother was going to do it with me. He's got, he'd been to uni to do film. Oh, right. Didn't know that. And that didn't end up panning out.

Yeah, that didn't end up panning out. And then he basically, so he, he, he kind of did something else. I'd already bought all this equipment and I was like I'm just gonna do it and I got a free gig with somebody I didn't know but it was like a, it was a sister of a friend of a friend. And that is literally what happened.

And then the, when you saw me, like I say, I think that was my second paid job I'd done. I'd probably shot two or three weddings at that point. And and I was just making it up as I went along. As we all do. So, yeah, I literally did decide I was going to try and be, become a wedding videographer and then that kind of migrated to 

Kieran: photography.

Did you ever, do like second shooting or anything before you did it then or you just jumped straight in? So we didn't either when we first started out. I mean, like a lot of people do and it's a good, it's a good way to start, isn't it? It's getting second shooting jobs, but 

no one: yeah. 

Kieran: Yeah, we just yeah, we just got an absolute ton of, ton of, I don't know what the word is to use here, yeah?

Ton of, ton of weddings from Gumtree, is, is what I'll say, which were an experience. Which weren't a very good price I imagine. Which were an experience in themselves. There was no price, Jules. There weren't. It was a good experience, though. But yeah, that's cool. I don't think there's many photographers out there that, that initially think, right, I'm going to start wedding photography or wedding videography.

I think they kind of fall into it by, like, someone knows that they've got a camera or something, like, oh, can you photograph or shoot our wedding for us? And they do it, Do it from that, and off the back of that, I think they realise that actually it's something they want to start doing, isn't it? I think that's, in most cases, that's the story for a lot of people.

So for you to, for you to actually make a decision before even trying it out and say you want to be a wedding photographer, videographer is pretty impressive really. 

Jules: It was a weird decision, but looking back on it, it made, it made sense at the time. Looking back on it, it made sense. Does it make sense now?

It does and it doesn't really. I don't, I sometimes, I am, I am still trying to work out if this is actually what I was, you know, what I'm supposed to be doing. But I'm, I'm doing okay and it pays the bills so, and I do enjoy it. I do enjoy it. So you know, for now that, that makes a lot of sense.

But, we're going to start wrapping it up, but essentially before we end the podcast, I think we need to just discuss like where things are going to go from here. Cause obviously I've covered loads and loads of things on my own or with Lindsay when I've done podcasts in the past, but I think where, you know, whatever your thoughts are, but I think that from here, we're going to carry it on in the same way, but it will just be more.

I think we've got a lot of we can have a lot more robust conversations about things because we won't necessarily, because we've, we've done different things, haven't we? Whereas before when I was speaking with Lindsay, we've kind of come at it from the same angle of like, we've both run the business and it's been our business the way we've been doing it.

So we had the same, we had the same experience, whereas we're going to have had different experiences. And I think that's, what's going to be really interesting to get different points of view and different experiences on it. Yeah. 

Kieran: Bounce off each other. Yeah, definitely. 

Jules: Yeah, and hopefully we'll get some, some guests on.

There are kind of lots of people that we've met and made contacts with and people that we've we admire their work or we kind of really interested in their business or whatever. So we're going to be kind of reaching out to them over the coming weeks to try and try and get some interviews and discussions with them lined up.

And then we'll be doing different topics. between ourselves. But for anybody listening who's listened before, you can just basically expect a very similar thing, but I think it'll be even more interesting because we're going to have that, you know, constant rather than having to wait for an interview necessarily.

We'll be able to talk about certain topics that are going to be of real use and interest to people, and there'll be a lot for them to take away, but we'll be able to come at it from different experiences and angles. 

Kieran: Get looking for that intro music Jules.

Jules: Right. So there's going to be a bit of a different format to the podcast going forward when we've kind of properly got into it. We just wanted to record this intro podcast. We're going to wrap it up for now. But. As from the next episode, there'll be a little bit more of a format to it. We're going to exit on a kind of song of the day.

And the reason for that is because one of the hardest things I know as a wedding filmmaker, wedding videographer is music choice and finding music. I mean, how much time do you spend on that, Kieran? 

Kieran: Oh, I don't, I don't even want to think about the time I spend on that. Too long. Cause I'd say it's, 

Jules: yeah, it's, it's one of the longest processes for me.

And it always has been, but I've, I've kind of gone through, things that have helped me over the years to speed that up. And I've got kind of a lot of playlists with different songs in, and we just thought that it'd be helpful to every week, share a song as an outro music, we can tell you what it's called.

Kieran: If before you, before you play it, if, if you found a quick way to find music, as you've just mentioned, I'm sure there's plenty of video for us out there that will be, Begging you to find out your, your recipes. Another podcast again. 

Jules: Well, there you go. Yeah. So that will cover that one at some point over the coming weeks.

Right, right. Great talking to you mate, and looking forward to plenty more conversations to come. Sweet. Catch you later on a

it.

no one: Let's go!